I was recently reading a blog from a convert confirmed yesterday named Matt. His blog Absolutely No Spin details his conversion among other things. He noted that he was confirmed in a Tridentine Rite Church (mass entirely in Latin as per the 1962 Missal) and as a part of this Rite, he was required to make a rather thorough Profession of Faith in which he had to profess the following:
"This same Catholic faith, outside of which nobody can be saved, which I now freely profess and to which I truly adhere"
Clearly this Profession claims that there is no Salvation outside of the loving arms of Mother Church. Having already reconciled with Rome myself, I have no issue with this statement personally. Surely also, Jesus says in John 6 that "if you do not eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you" and that to eat his flesh and drink his blood is to "Abide in him" as He abides in his father. Again in John 15 he says he is the True Vine and we who "Abide in him" are the branches and apart fom him we cannot do anything and are cut off and after withering are thrown into the fire to be burned. Scriptures seem to support this thought.
What then about the rest of my family? They are all still Evangelicals who reject the Church. My wife and I are the best examples of Catholics we can be with the grace of God, but now in the light of this profession, should I feel the "immediacy of the Gospel" to share with them as they are destined for Hell?
What then about the marks of grace in their life? I know them well and I see how God touches their lives. They truly love God and his written word and would surely die for his name's sake in a heartbeat if they had to. How then can we say that they are damned outside of the Church?
Certainly, I do not suggest that they are fine as they are. If I saw fit to swim the Tiber, I believe then that every Christian should do the same. If I didn't, it would have been pointless to have been confirmed in the first place. However that every Christian must make that same swim is something else entirely.
The way I have understood it thus far is that Christians are people who believe that Jesus was God and Man, came from heaven to die for our sins, that the Blood of the New Covenant that he shed is the only way to the Father and who are baptized and profess Christ crucified, buried and resurrected. If though they are not in Communion with the Church, they have no recourse to proper Confession and therefore will spend a while in Purgatory. I don't know any true Christian who does not say an Act of Contrition on a regular basis, so does this mediate mortal sin?
If anyone has any thoughts or definitive answers from the Magisterium on this issue, please let me know. I have to know so I can approach my Family and friends accordingly.
In Christ Jesus the Risen Lord
Joel
Saint Patrick
...Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me, Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me, Christ on my right, Christ on my left, Christ in breadth, Christ in length, Christ in height, Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me, Christ in the mouth of every man who speaks of me, Christ in every eye that sees me, Christ in every ear that hears me.
St Patrick's RCC Interior
My Catholic Birthplace
St Patrick's RCC
Confirming Priests
Fr. Isaac Chackalaparampil, C.M.I. Ph.D.
Fr. Augustine Mampilly, C.M.I
10 comments:
Joel,
I think the Catechism of the Catholic Church will do much to help you with this issue. Read CCC 816 - 819.
Basically, the Catholic Church is the depository of the Fullness of Truth. However, the Church recognizes the seperated Christian churches hold "elements of sanctification and of truth" and that "Christ's Sprit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church."
CCC 818, "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the seperation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such seperation] and in them are brough up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers"
Essentially, it is possible to obtain salvation in those Faith communities outside of the Catholic Church. However, the elements of Truth that those communities hold are derived from the Fullness of Truth held by the Catholic Church. As the depository of Truth, instituted by Christ, the Catholic Church holds a vital role in salvation.
In my understanding (and hopefully anothe reader can better address this) it would be a grave matter indeed to know the Fullness of the Truth held by the Catholic Church and then to deny her teachings.
Hey there Joel,
You bring up some interesting issues and I don't know that I can add much more than Chris already has here.
From really taking a hard look at my Profession of Faith it seems obvious to me that while it is "the basics" of Catholic teaching, it is also reactionary in a way to protestant and schismatic viewpoints. If you re-read it you'll see what I mean.
My parish is run by the FSSP, which is in full communion with Rome. It has been an amazing experience to say the least. Chris (above me here) is actually the manager of the Catholic Converts Blogroll, which I am a part of too. So if you talk to him and get yourself on that roll - you'll be in mine. Peace!
Hey there
First let sme say as to many of these old decrees this was done at a time when there actually massess of people leaving the Church. THat is going Protestant. That is not the same situation today. Note that no Pope has called Protestants Hertics or anything like that for ages. We see even in Papal Bulls in the 1860's a change of language on this. WHy? BEcause the situation was different.
Let us look at a situation in the 40's when the Prof of Faith you mentioned was in force. Father Finney, this is the what is called the Boston Controversy, was teaching that all those not Baptized Catholics were all damned. Well Pius Xii said that is not true ans stop teaching that. Well he didnt and he was excommuncated.
I notieced on another blog you said you were striggling with this so I strongly suggest you go to these links
Dialogue on "Salvation Outside the Church" and Alleged Catholic Magisterial Contradictions
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/03/dialogue-on-salvation-outside-church.html
On Salvation Outside the Catholic Church (+ Discussion) (Fr. John A. Hardon
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/01/on-salvation-outside-catholic-church.html
The Catholic Church's View of Non-Catholic Christians (Karl Adam)
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/01/catholic-churchs-view-of-non-catholic.html
LAST BUT NOT LEAST
The Unam Sanctam "Problem" Resolved
Can Non-Catholics Be Saved?
http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/debate9.htm
That link is great because it pouts the hostorical context and other questions of Unam Sanctum into play.
Also see hii related piece-
Are Protestants Christians?
Protestants, Salvation, and the Catholic Church
http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num43.htm
Hope this helps
Jh
Louisiana
I understand some of what you must be feeling about this. All of my relatives and old friends are still in Protestant communities. Your answer is clearly expressed in Lumen Gentium 14,15 and 16.
Short version? It's possible for someone to be saved who is baptised validly and remains in a state of grace or at least manages perfect contrition. (Possible, but MUCH tougher than having all the grace available to a Catholic) and only by virtue of Christs work in the Church. BUT that,
"Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved" (LG 14)
In other words, if they know the Catholic Church is Christ's Church, they must join her.
Lumen Gentium is one of the documents of Vatican II and it's teachings have been clarified in the document Dominus Iesus.
Both are available at the Vatican website.
God bless your ongoing journey!
Hi Joel - It looks like other people have already given you some good information and links. I haven't had time to check the links so I don't know what they say, but I do have a few things to add to what has been said in these comments. I’m sorry I don’t have time to reference anything (tons of studying to do for classes tomorrow) so you’ll just have to take my word for it. If anyone here notices anything wrong in what I say, please don’t hesitate to correct me as I’m working from memory here.
First: It remains true that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
But it is important to understand what this means. It does not mean that everyone has to literally be a Catholic to be saved. It means that all salvation comes from the Catholic Church, Christ's Body and beautiful channel of grace and life, because it comes from Christ who works in and through the Church. The grace of salvation in some invisible, mystical way flows from Christ through the Church to everyone who is saved.
The Church is more than just a building or an institution. It is the kingdom of God, the city of God, spreading from heaven to earth, through which Christ works on the earth. St. Augustine in City of God wrote that there are only two cities, the city of man and the City of God, and we belong to one or the other. The grace of Christ flows through the City of God to men all over the earth.
Non-Catholic Christians, by virtue of their faith and baptism, are in some way joined to the Church, through incompletely, and receive their salvation from the Church. Quite literally actually, when you consider that their bible originated in the Catholic Church and their knowledge of Christ was received from the Catholic Church in the first place. Non-Christians who feel God’s law written in their hearts who sincerely try to live by it, even if they understand it incompletely, can also be saved, by the same grace of Christ flowing through the Church.
If those outside the Catholic Church fall into mortal sin, they must have real repentance for it, true contrition in their hearts. God will not reject those who are truly repentant. It is more difficult for those who do not have the grace of the sacrament of confession to truly overcome their sins and grow in grace, but they will not be rejected if they are sincerely repentant, and sincerely trying to do better. And as you say, whatever they are unable to do in this life will be completed for them (and all of us who need it) in purgatory.
Your relatives, if they truly love Christ and are doing their best to follow them, will likely go to heaven. But if they were to become Catholic, and really live the Catholic life, they would receive so much more grace in the process. There is a reward in heaven, and it is possible that non-Catholic Christians who live as fully for Christ as they can will receive a greater reward than Catholic Christians who don’t, who take their faith for granted and live a lukewarm life in the Lord. These latter may make it into heaven, but their works may be burned up like so much straw, and their reward will be little (1 Cor 3:12-15).
But Catholics who strive their utmost, who live the faith fully, partake of the sacraments with fervor, live the way of the cross, allow themselves to be humbled and purified, pour themselves out for the sake of others, that others would also know the Lord, really abandon themselves to the Lord in every way? If this is truly done in and for the Lord, with little thought of the self – then great will be their reward.
So, you should still witness to your relatives about the beauty of Catholicism, the wonderful and abundant graces available here for all who would come and partake. They would be so helped in their journey of faith, if only they would come and partake. And most of all, they would know the joy of being truly One with Christ our Lord and his Body, which is the great desire of all who truly love and follow Christ.
Hope that helps – God bless you and your relatives! I pray they will know not only the grace of Christ, but the grace of the fullness of His beautiful Church.
After I posted that comment, I thought of this biblical illustration of the grace of Christ flowing through the City of God, and the life of Christ offered in the midst of the City to the world:
“Then he showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of the God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.” (Rev 22:1-2)
Joel,
It's been pretty well said here in other comments (I suspect) but the fact is that anyone who is baptized in the Triune formula is, in the opinion of the Church, part of the Church, although not in full communion.
This is because (as I said recently on another post) the Catholic Church views herself as the sole Church of Christ on Earth. Therefore, by virtue of that concept, everyone who has been licitly incorporated in to the Family of God by baptism is part of the Mystical Body of Christ.
Because we can't know what the disposition of someone's soul is at the time of their death, we hold that it is possible for non-Catholic Christians, those who have been born in the Faith through baptism, have the opportunity to be saved.
In fact, the Church goes even further to say that those, who through no fault of their own, do not know Christ Jesus, are still capable of receiving salvation provided that they obey the law of God which is written on their hearts.
So, no one can live a dissolute life and claim, at judgment, "I didn't know better," because God tells us that knowledge of the Law is inherent in our being!
Personally, I am concerned for many Americans, Catholic, non-Catholic Christian and non-Christian alike. So many people are falling for the line, "if it doesn't hurt anyone, what's the harm?" This is applied mostly to sins of the flesh, but it is applied in other situations as well.
The answer, of course, is that if it violates the Law, it hurts God!
Americans in particular and westerners in general need to be reminded of Jesus's words:
How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! - Matthew 7:14
The Protestant concept of "justification" convinces people that there is no real need to walk the straight path through the narrow gate.
Because the Catholic Church is the only one that consistently teaches the Faith as it has been from the beginning of Christ's Church, and the Catholic Church is the only one that insists on regular, sacramental confession, the Catholic Church remains the truest guide on the straight and narrow path.
Thank you all for your input, it really was helpful. Aimee especially as always put it in such eloquent terms. Half of the trouble I guess is that my father was a baptized and confirmed Catholic until his 20's when he had a "born again" experience in a Protestant sense. So I do worry about him having rejected the grace in the sacraments. Five of his other siblings have done the same and his mother did too. My grandfather and one aunt who lives in France are my only Catholic relatives. Praise God that most of my in-laws are Catholic or I'd be pretty lonely.
Thanks again all.
In Christ Jesus
Joel
Joel - it may help you to know that your father and others probably do not understand what they actually did, and so may not really be culpable for it. We live in a time of confusion, and many Catholics really are ignorant of their faith and have not encountered Christ in the Church. If they find Him elsewhere, it is a good thing.
But pray for their return. Reverts, like converts, sometimes make the best Catholics, because having been without it, they really appreciate what they have when they receive it again!
Also, I took your question and my comment and expanded on it a little on my blog. You can take a look if you like; the additional information might be helpful, or at least inspirational!
Wow, what GREAT discussion! Joel, I always find lots of food for thought at Catholic.com's forums. Have you tried them? :)
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